This post is due by Tuesday, March 25 @ midnight for full credit.
Email late posts to rwilliamsATchamplain.edu for partial credit.
Read the assigned chapters above, and then:
1. Provide 3 SPECIFIC observations about the Arab Spring you learned from EACH chapter of our book, using 2-3 sentences combining the book and your own IYOW analysis.
2. Finally, ask ONE specific question you have of the Arab Spring after completing our reading.
Battle #3
ReplyDeleteMegan Spiezio-Davis
Tunisia’s Ben Ali begins this chapter. The authors waste no time in discussing his poor leadership and his blatant lies. The chapter kept a narrative of the workings of Ben Ali, which we have not read in other text thus far. Details such as Ben Ali not allowed on French Soil illustrates a picture of a leader whose people do not trust him but neither do leaders of other countries. Finding the saga of Ben Ali’s leadership and eventual demise to be somewhat entertaining, I did not find the economic instability of Tunisia to be captivating at all.
A quote on page 67 captures the feeling of uselessness the people must have felt. “Economic frustration was compounded by political repression.” In a sentence that sums up the main reason people got off their coaches and revolted. Experts say that on paper Tunisia looked stable and somewhat promising; however the citizens felt something different, even before Bouazizi’s suicide. This chapter was exceptionally meaningful to read the quotes from his sister and a spokeswomen form his town. (pg.74)
I find a common thread amongst Middle Eastern leaders, they promise too little too late, as with Ali; Mubarak was in the same predicament. Both waited too long to concede anything to their people. Yet, the book offers an interesting viewpoint of elder citizens feeling apprehensive to push for change. They feared what if it got worse. This was a poignant point to explore. It is something that we read in Revolution 2.0, the fear of change was stalling any progression.
Now with the initial catalyst of a revolution already done, we watch to see how Egypt handles themselves and we witness how they progress to a country with more equality than before. Though the revolt occurred, they are still stalling a little due to so many interests. Egypt is having a difficult time coming to a consensus. Christians make up 10% of the voting power, there are questions about the Muslim Brotherhood and women are still treated poorly.
My question for this reading is that Egypt doomed to continue a cycle of poor leadership because there are so many foreign interests involved?
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ReplyDeleteChapter 4: Tunisia's Jasmine Revolution
ReplyDelete- Its wicked interesting to learn more about how Tunisia was an "economic success story" according to the rest of the world but yet many Tunisians were unhappy with where things were going.
- It is really exciting to see that Tunisia has been viewed successful in their uprisings and that they are making good progress towards something better.
- My research supports that both Tunisia and Europe have strong ties with each other but there is flaw within these relations (nothing is perfect). As I had said in our presentation on Tunisia there was and still is a lot of attention on who will be in control within their government system and as I had said this is a scary thing because many people (including other nations who offer aid) usually have a different agenda than those they are aiding.
Chapter 5: The Pharaoh Falls
- One person in power stepping down doesn't really do much for Egypt but rahter they understood that this power they had as a people would be able to transfer to whatever they were trying to accomplish. In the movie "The Square" many people say that they should have never left the square until all their demands had been met. There was a lot of problems with varying forces that now wanted control in the government, one of which being the Muslim Brotherhood, we constantly use the term "power vaccum" in class (effectively if I may add). It's true, when one person is removed from power that is good but more needs to be done and at a more foundational level.
- It is really sad to see that a lot of people in power within Egypt don't want to see change at all, that they don't "have the capacity to". Their "world view" is limited was another quote that struck me, I try to imagine that my leader doesn't really have any relation to me or what I want our country to do (in a relative sense). A lot of Egyptians actions are not surprising to me the more I read on about the injustice that the regime inhibits upon its own people.
I find it startling that the United States and other major foriegn powers would rather see stability in the Middle East countries rather than seeing democracy. After what I just said about our own government and how their thoughts are at least somewhat simliar to my own. If people are not able to live their lives the way they truly want to then they resort to revolution. They resort to revolution because their own government will not even hear them let alone take their thoughts and concerns into consideration. That in itself is no where near stability and it is because of how oppressive their governments are, it is not a just way to lead.
Chapter 4:
ReplyDeleteIt was pretty shocking that in order to satisfy the 60,000 young educated people entering the work force each year, Tunisia's GDP must expand by about 7 percent a year. It was also interesting that there was a debate among Tunisians about whether or not the Tunisian uprising was a revolution or not. By the outside world Tunisia looks like an economic success story but a lot of Tunisians do not feel the same way.
Chapter 5:
It seems as though people in power do not have any desire to make changes nor do they want to see any changes happen. The reason is that the regime would not have benefitted from any change. I found it interesting that even after Mubarak stepped down nothing changed and the military had taken over power. The military had not turned over its power like was promised and the protests picked up again. I found it particularly interesting that the military did exactly what Mubarak did even after what happened to Mubarak. People in power really do not want any change.
Chapter 4:
ReplyDeleteI found it interesting that when Ben Ali of Tunisia stepped down from office, he soon began to get out of Tunisia with his family. And how news media's would have different reports on Ben Ali's whereabouts. For example, how one news media said he might be in France while the other said he might be in Saudi and so on. I also find it shocking that how France end their relationship with Tunisia after he fled from Tunisia. I never knew a country could end their relationship that quickly without any terms and so on. It's also funny on Ben Ali's part on how he finally decided to do his pilgrimage for hajj and umra by staying in the holy city of Mecca and Medina so that the protests in Tunisia could get calm so he could come back again. Though I bet that hajj wasn't on his mind but a asylum for like.
Chapter 5:
After reading this chapter on Egypt, I am still wondering has if how Mubarak stayed for such a longtime in office since 1981. Why didn't people of Egypt didn't do these protests from the beginning so they could throw him out instead of waiting for such a longtime and then carrying all these protests and these chaos and so on. it does not make sense. It is like as if the Egyptians were waiting for a day like this to come when all Arab countries protest so they could protest as well. If people of Egypt were not happy with Mubarak they should have raised their voices from the beginning. I sometimes feel like that it is the Egyptian citizens fault as well because they should have done this before not now. If their are no jobs for youth and not high wages it is also because of the people who break these law. For instance, Arab citizens avoid paying the required taxes instead they pay less and when this cycle keeps going and going by people breaking the laws soon it will be big that will cause bigger problems and people will start blaming the government because of the problems they face. Instead they should blame themselves as well for not obeying the law.
Question:
Why did France end their long time relationship with Tunisia? Is it because of the president of Tunisia stepping down from office or some other reason?
Ch. 4- The first thing that jumps out in this chapter is that the way Ben Ali left the country is crazy. The fact that there was speculation on where he was, and if he would be allowed in Paris, and finally fleeing to Saudi Arabia is just bizarre. It was also interesting to learn that by the North African standards, Tunisia was not one of the worse of countries, ("By the World Bank's definition, just 7 per cent of Tunisian's lived in poverty on the eve of the uprising.") however Tunisian's were not satisfied with their situation, and rightfully so. Unemployment was high, their was corruption and their was political repression. So it is encouraging to see a group wanting more even if it may be a surprise that they fought for revolution, and perhaps that is one reason their revolution has been viewed as a success. Lastly I think it is important to note the lack of foreign influence in Tunisia. The book blatantly says, "One of the biggest factors in Tunisia's favour is that it is simply not important enough to be interfered with by external actors". People often wonder how big of a role the US should play in Middle Eastern affairs, and perhaps Tunisia can be an example for the world.
ReplyDeleteCh. 5- While we have discussed Egypt much more than any other country so far in class, some of the numbers in this chapter are just shocking. The fact that people were living on $1.25 in '08/'09 is unbelievable. In Egypt, where the United States and other foreign powers seem to be watching over like hawks, it seems everything comes down to how the Muslim Brotherhood handles themselves. Lastly, I think it is important that in nothing else, Egyptians have seen that they can speak out now, so no matter how long it takes I have the feeling they will fight to see more progress or essentially be completely taken over by a military state.
My question: Where Tunisia has seen success due to lack of foreign influence, is the exact opposite going to happen to Egypt because of foreign interest?
Chapter 4
ReplyDeleteI can not believe that Tunisia was such a economic success story with the amount of unemployment they had. It is also surprising to hear that only 14% of Tunisians would say they where thriving in 2010. I guess it is not the surprising when you consider their situation although compared to what we are use to in the U.S it is undoubtable different. Its wild to think of the government screwing people out of jobs by placing security checks on them about their religion. Security checks are obviously a common thing but being denied due to religious views and opinions is something very foreign to us. I was excited to read about Bourguiba and his involvement with women rights. Its odd to hear that a country with as many issues such as Tunisia is ahead of us when it comes to things like abortions being accepted with in their society. It is also exciting to see Tunisia forming as a leader of the arab world by making the most progress towards democracy in 2011.
Chapter 5
I find is unsettling that Obama made a statement about Egypt needing to overturn the government and set in place a new democratic government. Although I agree with him, the reason I find it unsettling is due to the fact that no one is helping Egypt get back on their feat and build a new government currently. I am sure there are reasons that we have not helped them rebuild, but they are reasons I do not know of. That being said, the U.S has a lot of their own issues on their hands. It was interesting to read about how the rising economy in Egypt tended to hurt the people more than helping because of the lack of education there. Its saddening to hear that on 35% of the Egyptian population has a university education, and that 54% of them live in Cairo. I do not understand how the Egyptian military can still rule once the government has fallen.
How can the Egyptian Military rule even though the government has fallen?
Chapter 4
ReplyDeleteThere were many interesting facts about Tunisia. It was interesting to know that while there were uprisings happening for months in Tunisia; France had plans to back them up. Providing ammunition an unarmed people was very interesting. I could see how things could go wrong in a country that the leaders were keeping tigers and flying yogurt for dessert just because. I also found it very interesting that for a country that is seen as having very little freedoms, Habib Bourguiba, was a very revolutionary man. The fact that Bourguiba introduced the Personal Status code, giving women rights, many who were unheard of and are still unheard off. I also didn’t know that so many parties could come out of a country that had so much political dislike.
Chapter 5
We have dived deep into the Egyptian uprising and something I didn’t really know was the fact that before the uprisings started the economy in Egypt was actually on the rise. Even though the money was on the rise people were blaming the government for taking their money even though they were complying with IMF standards. I like the fact women are mentioned in this book. I thought it was terrible to know that women who were celebrating their day got attack and instead of protecting them the police actually took part in the mistreatment of women.
Question: How similar are is the situation for women in the Middle East, are there areas in which women are more vocal?
Chapter 4:
ReplyDelete1. “In a region beset by poverty and instability, Tunisia was seen as an economic success story” (66). I think the discussion of the IMF portrayal of Tunisia is important because it explains the international misconception about Tunisia. By portraying the country as an economic success, it gave the appearance of national happiness when there was underlying distress.
2. “In Tunisia, if you wanted to get a permanent job, you had to go through a security check on your political views, whether you are leftist, Islamist, nationalist” (67). I think the government shot itself in the foot by condemning the Islamists because it lit more fires for revolution (political oppression).
3. “When I saw some young people I would never have imagined would stand against Ben Ali, young people who have nothing to do with politics, shouting slogans against the regime and facing the police and overcoming fears, even then I was not thinking we would get rid of Ben Ali. But perhaps I was convinced that we had broken the barrier of fear” (75). This section brought up two points in my mind: (1) the young people of the revolution were not politicians, they were ordinary citizens; (2) after the element of fear was broken, Tunisians (and other Arab Spring countries) came together to make a change.
Chapter 5:
1. “Despite living in one of the largest and most diversified economies in Africa, many Egyptians were on low incomes, with over 21 percent below the poverty line in 2008” (100). I feel like this sentence is contrasting, but I guess Egypt in general was in contrast, which is why Egyptians erupted. The economic system was so flawed that the citizens finally had had enough.
2. “[The interior ministry forces] had doubled since Sadat’s day to reach an estimated 1.4 million by 2007, and Egyptians routinely expected gratuitous violence if they happened to fall foul of security officers or police for the most trivial of offenses” (104). This number was shocking to me. I never thought that the secret police was so extensive, but now I can see why this was such a major complaint for Egyptians. With a secret police, I would never feel safe voicing my opinion or talking to strangers.
3. “The protest was a turning point. It exposed the fault line that had divided Islamist and secular activists all along, but had been pushed beneath the surface by the unifying clamour to bring down Mubarak” (119). I really like the point that this section makes. The true strength of the revolution was in its numbers, and to make these numbers happen, every religion, class, and gender needed to protest.
Question:
The size of the secret police in Egypt surprised me, so I’m curious about the size of these forces in other countries. Did they impact citizen fear in other areas as much as in Egypt?
Shukran to the few of you who are rocking the blog - yalla!
ReplyDeleteDr. Rob
Chapter 4 : It catches me by surprise, the sheer number of people responding to the catalysts of the revolution. Mohammed Bouazizi setting him self on fire, sparked movements movements all across arab nations… ( No pun intended )… Being pushed to the breaking point, so far that you are setting yourself on fire, demonstrates what you are willing to give for your country and your people…Meanwhile the president is on his way out " Leaving the door open " for his return. He rides out in his private limo with his family, to a private airport with a private jet.. While thousands take the street to protest his very being. He had no connection with the people, no relationship was developed like those in which we do in a more westernized state of living. Every time I read about this stuff it is like it is straight out of the movies.. But no it is actually happening thousands of miles away, to people just like you and me.. Protests are not how we take care of things here in america, we do not flood the streets of washington DC and battle with guards, at least not on the large scale that any arab states faced… It is just a huge culture shock..
ReplyDeleteChapter 5
I just don't understand how one, rebuilds an political, economical, and equal community, after such an uprising.. You have bodies in the street, buildings falling apart, guns laying around, and a corrupt system that left an incredible power vacuum after it's departure; opening up the flood gates for militia groups, opposition, rebels, even gang like behavior. Months after the uprisings illegal buildings sprouted amongst interim governments that are barley standing. I guess tunisia is the best example of a positive outcome along these lines, but yet dissatisfaction with how things are currently being ran, and rebuilt, is leaving people to believe that they should take the streets yet again, for more protesting…. When is this cycle going to end?
In order for fallen arab states to regain their footing, is 3rd party intervention really that horrible of an idea? A stable order must be developed, an I feel like If I were over in any of those states at the moment, I would have no idea what was going on.
Chapter 4:
ReplyDeleteI found it interesting that Ben Ali's wife climbed the social ladder from a hair dresser to First Lady. I was under the impression that Arabs mostly stayed in the social class they were born in, especially women. I would like to know how she managed to do that. I also found it interesting that the IMF had such glowing reviews of Tunisia. I wonder why their report was so far from the average Tunisian's experience? It's still hard for me to comprehend setting myself on fire, the way Bouazizi did, especially considering he had a wife and eight kids. Being burnt alive is supposed to be excruciatingly painful; things in Tunisia must have been bad.
Chapter 5:
It is incredible that foreign direct investment jumped from $400 million to $13 billion in just five years. What did the global market see in Egypt to spark that much investment? It is horrifying to me that 54% of the unemployed in Cairo had a college degree. Considering I am going to graduate in December, that figure really sent shivers down my back. I did not understand why the public thought the army would do a good job once Mubarak left. Since Nasser's coup, the army supplied all the leaders that got them into this situation. Why did they think this time would be better?
Question:
What role will Islam play in shaping the new governments in Tunisia and Egypt?
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ReplyDeleteChapter 4
ReplyDeleteTunisia simply sounded like it was waiting to go, it was only a matter of time till it did. There were so many reasons that they needed a revolution, the people were suffering. The government made it extremely hard and corrupt for people to get a decent job for themselves. The fact that they were able to recover and be considered an economic success is amazing. However the people have said to be unhappy about their economic situation when the rest of the world is thinking otherwise. Some of the happenings within Tunisia seemed to be pretty bizarre. I found it really strange how the leader Ben Ali was such a shifty character. He would be here at one point, and someone else would report him being in a different area.
Chapter 5
This dove back into Egypt a little more, it gave some really crazy statistics. One was people in Egypt at one point were living off of about $1.25 a day, thats unheard of here in America. Also how many people are educated from a university there is saddening, just about 35%. We all know that there are ways to get by substantially in life without going to college, however it is good to know have the feeling of a well educated community. Of course I am not saying that those in Egypt who didn't go to college are not smart, but it's definitely not a bad thing to do so.
If more of the youth in Egypt went to college, would the people as a whole have more control over their lives?
Chapter 4
ReplyDelete- In January 2011 Tunisian president al-Abidine promised to not run for re-election, he sacked his government, called for early elections, and declared a state of emergency before leaving the country. Would it had been possible for the president to promise not to run for re-election, call for early elections, and still be able to stay and govern his country until a new government could be formed?
- It’s interesting that the first country to experience an uprising did so peacefully and within a month. The book explain this had an effect on the region because “success sells”, if success sells than why didn’t the peaceful part of Tunisia’s protests carry into other upraising’s.
- I also didn’t know that in Tunisia if you wanted a permanent good job you had to go through a background check that looked into your political views.
Chapter 5
- It’s interesting you find out the effect of Mubarak’s ousting had on the relationship between the Egyptian military and the Egyptian people. It’s easy to see that the military doesn’t trust the people and the people don’t trust the military.
- Corruption is Egypt was much worse than first thought. Mubarak was so deep in corruption that it would have been impossible for him to cover all his tracks. Especially when it came to selling off big state industries to businessmen close to his regime.
- I did not know about Mubarak’s interior ministry forces that he built up over the years, these were the soldiers who carried out the regimes dirty work at the beginning of 2011.
Question:
- How can Egyptians trust their military today?
Chapter 4
ReplyDelete• Observation1 – “If, one day, a people desires to live, then fate will answer their call, and the night will begin to fade and their chains break and fall – Abu Qasim al-Chebbi” (Warren 63). I thought this was a very powerful quote and it works quite well with the overall message of the title.
• Observation2 – “It was no longer a call for jobs and freedom, nor for an end to corruption and police brutality. ‘Dégage!’, or ‘Get out!’, had become the rallying cry of the Tunisian revolution” (Warren 75). I found this very interesting because at the beginning the people just wanted more freedom, but now they seem to want a complete overhaul of the system.
• Observation3 – Unlike elsewhere in the region, the battle for Tunisia will largely be fought by internal parties rather than external players” (Warren 95). This quote made it seem like there would be no help from other countries in the Battle for Arab Spring. I get that the people believe that their own problems should be handled by themselves, but that quote makes it seem like they are going to shut the other countries out.
Chapter 5
• Observation1 – “Many of the youth activists were not party members, had little funding or political experience, and ended up running as individuals against better-known and better-financed Islamists or Mubarak-era deputies” (Warren 115). With most of the population being youths under the age of 25, one would think they would band together and come up with a solid plan.
• Observation2 – “The younger generation, those in their twenties and thirties, were divided into two broad factions” (Warren 123). This is another example of the population being split in half.
• Observation3 – “The continuation of the revolution is a given. It is not an option. The real change that happened is that people are ready to act and have courage. People do not feel desperate and alone – Amal Bakry” (Warren 134). Despite the multiple mentions of the population splitting and becoming weak, this quote gives hope that the people will reunite.
Question
• Where is the Arab Spring headed with the change in goals and splitting of people?
One of the most interesting facts of Chapter 4, which focused on Tunisia, was that Ben Ali had been banned from France. How could organizations such as the IMF tout Tunisia as such a success when their leader was a criminal and the economy was such a visible mess? When people's political views had to be analyzed before they could secure a job? The fact that "get out" became the rebels' call is very telling of just how much the Tunisian government failed its citizens.
ReplyDeleteChapter 5 gave more crazy information about Egypt. It is absolutely unimaginable to me that even though 35% of the population was college educated, 21% of the population was living below the poverty line. It must have been so frustrating for people who had developed so much on a personal level to see no matching innovation in their governance. In this chapter the authors also get into the division between Egypt's revolutionaries, which I didn't realize is much more prominent than in other Arab Spring nations.
Can Arab Spring countries make the disparities between their ideals and realities coincide?